THE COURT: Final accounting and report, petition for distribution and approval of attorney fees and discharge of the personal representative on the estate of Alvina Roloff.

MS. KURTZ: Your Honor, there is an heir present, a Mike Roloff, who is objecting to the final account.

THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Roloff, Mike Roloff, come on up, please.

Are you Marie Cheetham?

MS. CHEETHAM: Yes.

MS. KURTZ: I'd just like to give you a little background if I could.

THE COURT: Sure.

MS. KURTZ: I don't know if you've had opportunity to review the file or not, I sent it to the wrong court.

Marie Cheetham was appointed February 26 as personal representative and the will was admitted on the same date a notice of appointment was sent to the heirs of the estate. That includes one son, Gene Roloff, also known as David Solomon van Beek, and the grandchildren of the deceased.

On February 28th a notice to creditors was published. We received no creditors' claims against the estate.

On April 27th we did receive a fax from attorney Doug Whitlock indicating he was filing a notice of special proceeding on behalf of Gene Roloff.

We heard nothing from him -- we heard nothing from him further. And then on July 3rd we sent a declaration of completion receipt, checks and A-1 forms to each of the beneficiaries and to attorney Doug Whitlock.

On July 10th I received a phone call from Doug Whitlock, then requesting that he depose my client, although no action had been brought against her. At that time he advised that his client believed that bank accounts that passed with right of survivorship should be part of the estate and that there were loans due from various members of the family.

My client did ascertain that -- did recover one loan, reviewed all the records and believes that is the only outstanding loan.

We've received repeated requests from Mike Roloff for copies of our fees, for bank records, for annuities that passed outside of probate. My client has indicated and as recently as this Tuesday I sent Mr. Roloff a letter indicating that my client was still willing to produce bank records. She had asked that they be presented at -- that he review them at our -- at her home.

Any rate, at this point we think this needs to be concluded. We're ready to finalize the estate. These are assets that are outside probate. The law is pretty clear on joint bank accounts with right of survivorships. The mother had set up accounts with my client with right of survivorship. She had set up some annuities with my client and with her brother that passed outside of the terms of the will.

RCW 11.11, as Your Honor's aware, does provide a mechanism under a last will and testament for the deceased to take control of non-probate assets but excluding annuities. Non-probate assets would include the bank accounts, but there has to be specific reference to the bank accounts or "all my non-probate assets," some language to that effect.

The will involved here is just a general residuary disposition, half to the brother and half to her surviving grandchildren. So we don't think these bank accounts are at all involved. There's been no action against my client during all this time period and --

THE COURT: Is your client a beneficiary?

MS. KURTZ: She's not a beneficiary under the will. Her mother had conveyed a home to her back in '91, and I think that was her thinking on the will, to give the other half to the son and then to the grandchildren.

THE COURT: And the son is whom?

MS. KURTZ: Gene Roloff, also known as David Solomon van Beek.

THE COURT: He's joining in this objection?

MS. KURTZ: He is, although he is represented by Doug Whitlock. I talked with Doug Whitlock, his secretary told me he was in court. I haven't received a response from Doug Whitlock. Mr. Whitlock indicated he was not planning on appearing at this hearing.

THE COURT: Not planning to.

MS. KURTZ: Not planning to attend. The objection is signed by both Mike Roloff and Gene Roloff, the father.

THE COURT: Okay. So -- and you're Mike; right?

MR. ROLOFF: (No audible response.)

THE COURT: Have the assets that -- there's a mention here in his objection about a loan to Joanna Byce. Is that the one that was taken care of that you mentioned?

MS. KURTZ: Correct. And we've recovered the funds from Joanna.

THE COURT: And so they are in the estate.

MS. KURTZ: Right.

THE COURT: What's left, then, are bank accounts with right of survivorship?

MS. KURTZ: Well, they're not --

THE COURT: And annuities?

MS. KURTZ: Right. They're not part of the estate.

THE COURT: Okay, but that's what's in dispute.

MS. KURTZ: Correct.

THE COURT: How many bank accounts?

MS. KURTZ: Two bank accounts.

THE COURT: (To Mr. Roloff:) Do you agree with that, two bank accounts?

MR. ROLOFF: Yes.

THE COURT: And how many annuities?

MS. KURTZ: Two annuities.

THE COURT: (To Mr. Roloff:) Do you agree with that?

MR. ROLOFF: Yes.

THE COURT: And --

MS. KURTZ: And this --

THE COURT: -- the bank accounts -- okay. Can you give me an idea of the size of these assets?

MS. KURTZ: I think the annuity was roughly 60,000? Am I correct there? A little less, 50,000. Bank accounts of approximately 10-.

THE COURT: All right. And I think -- is your objection, then, that those assets, the bank accounts and the annuities, should be distributed as part of the estate?

MR. ROLOFF: No, sir. The objections are more or less still a request for us to be able to review the documents.

THE COURT: Which documents?

MR. ROLOFF: The documents that we just talked about. We are not objecting to what's in there, we want to know what's in there. Maybe that is a contradiction, I'm sorry.

THE COURT: You're not -- you're not claim- -- well, you want to see what specific documents?

MR. ROLOFF: We would like to see specific documents such as check registers, canceled checks, diaries, investment histories, bank account histories.

THE COURT: Going back how far?

MR. ROLOFF: Going back as far as the attorney-in-fact had control.

THE COURT: When was that?

MR. ROLOFF: From -- from what I know, there was two attorneys -- there's two power of attorneys. One was back in '91, the other one was back to prior to the death of Alvina Roloff, which would have been about a month.

THE COURT: Okay, now, those requests have been made?

MS. KURTZ: They have.

THE COURT: And --

MS. KURTZ: Well, the power of attorney has just been recently made. Mr. Whitlock had available all of these records to examine when he met with my client and I. He asked her lots of questions.

Although Mike Roloff says Mr. Whitlock did not represent him, he happened to show up at the office at the same time that Doug Whitlock came to talk with my client, basically depose her on an informal basis.

THE COURT: Okay. So you -- are you telling me that the documents requested by Mr. Roloff have been made available --

MS. KURTZ: Absolutely.

THE COURT: -- at least to Gene.

MS. KURTZ: Correct.

THE COURT: And his lawyer.

MS. KURTZ: Correct. And we've told Mike Roloff repeatedly that he could review the documents at my client's home.

And let me clarify this power --

THE COURT: And did he do that?

MS. KURTZ: No, he did not.

THE COURT: (To Mr. Roloff:) Is that correct?

MR. ROLOFF: That's correct, I did not.

THE COURT: Go on.

MS. KURTZ: The powers of attorney, one power of attorney was executed by Mrs. Roloff in 1991 effective upon her disability, naming my client as her attorney-in-fact if she became disabled.

And then Mrs. Cheetham's husband if she was unwilling or unable to act.

In 2000 she executed another power of attorney, again naming my client and her husband. The second power of attorney was much more comprehensive.

My client did not act, and could testify if the Court wants to ask her, until approximately two weeks prior to the mother's death.

THE COURT: Now, these documents that were requested, are they together in one location?

MS. KURTZ: Mrs. Cheetham has them at her home.

THE COURT: Okay. And how much -- what are we talking about here in terms of how many documents, how many records?

MRS. CHEETHAM: Well, originally they asked for two years, and we collected most of them. There's a few missing.

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MRS. CHEETHAM: Mom was taking care of her own financial stuff, so -- we just have -- and we have them here. And -- as far as bank records, we have them.

THE COURT: Do you have like the original check registers, that sort of thing, or do you have copies?

MS. KURTZ: Your Honor, they're --

THE COURT: Have you made copies and given those to Mr. Whitlock?

MS. KURTZ: I provided the originals at this meeting.

THE COURT: Okay. How much trouble would it be to make copies?

MS. KURTZ: I'd just ask Your Honor why we would be required to do that since these passed with right of survivorship.

THE COURT: Well, I think that's what he wants to investigate, to see whether -- I don't know exactly what he wants to look for, but any -- any indication, I assume, of double-dealing or dishonesty that might be available in records.

So in answer -- again, my question is, are these so bulky that it would be expensive or inconvenient to make copies of? No?

MS. KURTZ: I might hand Your Honor up this RCW 30.22, which is the disposition of joint accounts.

THE COURT: I'm not doubting you.

MS. KURTZ: Well --

THE COURT: I'm not ruling legally that he's entitled to relief, it's just a -- it's a discovery question before me now.

MS. KURTZ: But these aren't probate assets.

THE COURT: We have an heir who wants to know what -- well, maybe he wants to contest something about -- I don't know. Maybe he wants to contest how this right of survivorship agreement was arrived at, why the testator would have put, you know, purchased $60,000 worth of annuities, that sort of thing.

(To Mr. Roloff:) Do you think that's going to be something you'll find out about in these records?

MR. ROLOFF: It's possible, but we don't know. We'd just like a chance to review them.

THE COURT: Well, that's all I'm hearing, is just a discovery request, not an objection to the nature of these.

This is my ruling. You'll make copies of those and make them available to Mr. Roloff here. He can use those for whatever purpose. If he wants to move to set aside the distribution that I'm going to order today, then he'll have the material to do that and he'll have to do so within some reasonable period of time with a motion to reconsider or something like that.

So I'm going to grant your request here, Ms. Kurtz, sign your orders --

MS. KURTZ: Thank you.

THE COURT: -- but also grant the discovery that he's requesting.

MS. KURTZ: I have a proposed order I could hand up.

THE COURT: So if you could have those available for him, mail them -- (To Mr. Roloff:) Do you want them mailed to you?

MR. ROLOFF: (No audible response.)

THE COURT: By next Wednesday, can you do that?

MS. CHEETHAM: Sure.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MS. KURTZ: Thank you.